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Hesse-Darmstadt v's Roman Empire

Colin & Karen Hayes
 

Hello Everyone,

 

I have been reading with interest on what Germany was before the unification.

 

On this I would like to post again the information on my GG Grandfather Johannes Henkel who on his 2nd marriage certificate stated he was from Hesse-Darmstadt. How far back can we go before it was the Roman Empire. Does this mean that we also could be Roman/Italian.

 

Johannes was born 1 May 1820, his parents were Johann Jacob Henkel and Elizabetha Tritsch. They were Evangelisch. On line from the German Birth and Baptisms they have his record of Christening 7 May 1820 at Offenbach, Starkenburg, Hesse-Darmstadt. But on my trip to Offenbach from Australia last year, at the Archives I found documents to state he arrived in Offenbach 29 February 1844 and had his place of birth as Offenburf. The assistant said he was not born in Offenbach. Where then is this Offenburf?  I know he married in in Offenbach in 1844, and he and his wife came to Australia aboard the ship “Parland” in July 1849. I( cannot find any information on when this ship left Germany.

 

I would appreciate anyone who could shed some light on the details for birth or the ship Parland.

 

Karen Gold Coast

Bill Willis
 

Hesse Darmstadt was at one time within the Holy Roman Empire

As the saying goes the HRE was neither Holy nor Roman, Nor Empire.

The Roman empire itself ceased to exist in the west about 480 AD, though it hung on longer in the east.

W David Samuelsen
 

Holy Roman Empire was from 962 and lasted until 1806 when Napoleon was able to force dissolution of it in Napoleonic Wars


"Emperor Francis II dissolved the empire on 6 August 1806 following the creation of the Confederation of the Rhine by Emperor Napoleon I the month before."


David 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:40 AM Bill Willis <onadayofwindandrain@...> wrote:
Hesse Darmstadt was at one time within the Holy Roman Empire

As the saying goes the HRE was neither Holy nor Roman, Nor Empire.

The Roman empire itself ceased to exist in the west about 480 AD, though it hung on longer in the east.


Lila Garner
 


Some record mention Electorate of Hesse Kassel for example, the Prince Elector being the ruler. Did he vote for the Holy Roman Emperor?


On Jul 22, 2020, at 10:50 AM, W David Samuelsen <sammyslc@...> wrote:

Holy Roman Empire was from 962 and lasted until 1806 when Napoleon was able to force dissolution of it in Napoleonic Wars


"Emperor Francis II dissolved the empire on 6 August 1806 following the creation of the Confederation of the Rhine by Emperor Napoleon I the month before."


David 

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:40 AM Bill Willis <onadayofwindandrain@...> wrote:
Hesse Darmstadt was at one time within the Holy Roman Empire

As the saying goes the HRE was neither Holy nor Roman, Nor Empire.

The Roman empire itself ceased to exist in the west about 480 AD, though it hung on longer in the east.


ndnicol@epix.net
 

The often-quoted remark of Voltaire has found its uses over the past several centuries. However, anyone who has seriously studied the history of the HRE, understands how jaundiced was his viewpoint.

“The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman, nor an Empire.” For the historian, Voltaire's famous quip has three aspects: 1) What did Voltaire mean by it in 1756 when he wrote the line in his Essay on Customs? 2) How did contemporaries, including the Austrian Habsburgs, understand it? 3) Does the quote accurately describe the events the Philosophe is discussing (Charles IV of Bohemia and the Golden Bull of 1356)? Voltaire in fact exaggerates the weakness of the Empire in both 1356 and 1756, and uses an anachronistic standard to evaluate both: the quasi nation states of the 1750s. The three parts of the imperial title had changed in meaning during the four centuries after 1356. The jibe nonetheless reflects something of the thought of Voltaire and the French Enlightenment.

Michigan Academy of Science, Arts and Letters

May I suggest reading a few well-researched and detailed books in order to obtain a better understanding of how the HRE functioned.

Whaley, Joachim. Germany and the Holy Roman Empire, v. 2, The Peace of Westphalia to the Dissolution of the Reich 1648-1806. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2012. 

Wilson, Peter H. The Holy Roman Empire 1495-1806. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1999. 

And, for specific histories of Hessen...

Heinemeier, Dan C.  A Social History of Hesse - Roman Times to 1900.  Arlington VA: Heinemeier Publications, 2002. 

Ingrao, Charles W.  The Hessian Mercenary State: Ideas, Institutions and Reform under Frederick II, 1760-1785.  Cambridge/New York: Cambridge U.P., 1987. 

Taylor, Peter K.  Indentured to Liberty: Peasant Life and the Hessian Military State, 1688-1815.  Ithaca/London: Cornell U.P., 1994.

Enjoy,

--
Norman D. Nicol, Ph.D.
Professional Genealogist/Family Historian
Specializing in NE Pennsylvania, England, esp. Cornwall, Scotland and Germany

Bill Willis
 

A knowledge of Geography is surprisingly important for doing genealogy ANYWHERE

Google Maps is a really useful tool for finding the location of places like this

I find no entry for Offenburt
Conceivably Offenburt was something else that no longer exists by that name, but probably Offenburg was meant.
Offenburg is a city on the right bank of the upper Rhine, across the river from Strasburg.
Offenbach is about 130 miles to the north of Offenburg, just outside of Frankfurt.




Bill






On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:06 PM, Colin & Karen Hayes <ckhayes1@...> wrote:

Offenburf

Colin & Karen Hayes
 

Thank you for that. I need to check if there is any birth for Johannes in Offenburg. Karen

 

From: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io <main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Willis
Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2020 9:59 PM
To: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [German-genealogy-ENG] Hesse-Darmstadt v's Roman Empire

 

A knowledge of Geography is surprisingly important for doing genealogy ANYWHERE

 

Google Maps is a really useful tool for finding the location of places like this

 

I find no entry for Offenburt

Conceivably Offenburt was something else that no longer exists by that name, but probably Offenburg was meant.

Offenburg is a city on the right bank of the upper Rhine, across the river from Strasburg.

Offenbach is about 130 miles to the north of Offenburg, just outside of Frankfurt.

 

 

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 



On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:06 PM, Colin & Karen Hayes <ckhayes1@...> wrote:

 

Offenburf