Topics

Palintine +Druck


JACK HACKER
 

Hi,

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 
 
My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

Carole


Bill Willis
 

The term “Palatine” sometimes refers to the Rhineland Palatinate (Rhein Pfalz)
Unfortunately, the term Palatine was used in America to refer to just about anyplace in Germany.

Fortunately, most of the early settlers came from the Rhein Pfalz, and/or somewhere along the Rhine River Valley 
That, unfortunately, leaves you with a fairly broad area that they might have come from.

It helps, by the way, to know their religious affiliation. That may narrow down your search.
You might also consider checking a modern source to see where this surname is found today.  

Bill

On Jul 21, 2020, at 4:34 PM, JACK HACKER <cajalz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 
 
My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

Carole


James Groce
 

Carole, I’ll answer part of your question. There are no records at Rotterdam. I visited here back in 90’s seekng some possible clues for my Simon and Theobald Gross on the ship Europa, from Rotterdam to Philadelphia, November 1741. The city was heavily damaged during WW2.  I did find some Lloyd of London entries about the ship sightings and there were entries where ships reported sightings of  British ships making the voyage. The Palatine? You can google for that description of territory in present day southeast Germany.  Even a part of Bavaria may have been included in the “Palatine” area.

 

I went so far as to search for every immigrant on the Europa looking for possible clues as to origin. Many of the Palatine’s I identified were from present day state of Rheinland-Pfalz.  You may have some clues by looking at the local church records in York County, PA

 

Best of luck on your search. James Donald Groce, Cookeville, Tennessee

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JACK HACKER
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:35 PM
To: german-genealogy-ENG@groups.io
Subject: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Hi,

 

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

 

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 

 

My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

 

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

 

Carole

 


John W. Kitz
 

Carole,

 

In a Dutch newspaper dated February 25th, 1732 I found an article[1] that roughly translates to:

 

Amsterdam the 23rd of February. Yesterday arrived at Texel the ships of John Eglesfield; from Salo; Joseph Cairo; from Bilbao; and Kornelis the Greek, from Bourdeaux. It had been reported in London that Captain Webb's ship, from Salo to Mataro and wanting to return, had ended up on the beach at Tortosa; that they had hoped to get it going again; but that the storm was increasing, the ship lost, but all the people safe. It is written in letters from Figueyra of the 30th of January that the ship the Molly Captain Pear, with wool fabrics, beer, cheese, etc., from Bristol to Cadiz, Gibraltar and Malaga. 4 days [continued on next page]

 

[1] https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?coll=ddd&resultsidentifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&identifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&sortfield=date&objectsearch=Molly

 

Might this be the vessel named Molly you're looking for?

 

Regards, Jk.

 

From: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io [mailto:main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Groce
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2020 22:58
To: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io; cajalz@...
Subject: Re: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Carole, I’ll answer part of your question. There are no records at Rotterdam. I visited here back in 90’s seekng some possible clues for my Simon and Theobald Gross on the ship Europa, from Rotterdam to Philadelphia, November 1741. The city was heavily damaged during WW2.  I did find some Lloyd of London entries about the ship sightings and there were entries where ships reported sightings of  British ships making the voyage. The Palatine? You can google for that description of territory in present day southeast Germany.  Even a part of Bavaria may have been included in the “Palatine” area.

 

I went so far as to search for every immigrant on the Europa looking for possible clues as to origin. Many of the Palatine’s I identified were from present day state of Rheinland-Pfalz.  You may have some clues by looking at the local church records in York County, PA

 

Best of luck on your search. James Donald Groce, Cookeville, Tennessee

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JACK HACKER
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:35 PM
To: german-genealogy-ENG@groups.io
Subject: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Hi,

 

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

 

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 

 

My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

 

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

 

Carole

 


Allison Kendrick
 


I have some ancestors who Swiss and considered themselves Palatines. They went on a holy pilgrimage way before the Pilgrims  landed on Pilgrim rock, in the 1600s, and ended up in New Amsterdam. They intermarried with several other families while there, which is how I am also related to the Roosevelt’s. When the English took over and made it New York, the Palestine’s were forced out and went with their allied families south, where some of them were killed in the Muddy Creek Massacre. Tschudi , Stumpf, Frizzels, and Juachuim . Which later became Judy, Stump, and Youkum/Yokum. There are a few more families if you want me to look them up for you. 


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Willis <onadayofwindandrain@...> wrote:
The term “Palatine” sometimes refers to the Rhineland Palatinate (Rhein Pfalz)
Unfortunately, the term Palatine was used in America to refer to just about anyplace in Germany.

Fortunately, most of the early settlers came from the Rhein Pfalz, and/or somewhere along the Rhine River Valley 
That, unfortunately, leaves you with a fairly broad area that they might have come from.

It helps, by the way, to know their religious affiliation. That may narrow down your search.
You might also consider checking a modern source to see where this surname is found today.  

Bill
On Jul 21, 2020, at 4:34 PM, JACK HACKER <cajalz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 
 
My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

Carole


John W. Kitz
 

Carole, and others,

 

In another Dutch newspaper dated October 10th, 1741 I found an article[1] that roughly translates to:

 

Londen the 29th September. It is said that the ship the Pretty Betty from the Barbados to Philadelphia was brought up by the Spaniards to St. Augustine; and the ship the Molly wanting from South Carolina to Providence; in Havana, but the hijacker from Philadelphia coming from Madena with wine; [continued on the same page]

 

[1] https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=Molly&coll=ddd&sortfield=date&resultsidentifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002&page=1&facets%5Bperiode%5D%5B%5D=1%7C18e_eeuw%7C1740-1749%7C&identifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002

 

Regards, Jk.

 

From: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io [mailto:main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io] On Behalf Of John W. Kitz
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2020 23:23
To: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Carole,

 

In a Dutch newspaper dated February 25th, 1732 I found an article[1] that roughly translates to:

 

Amsterdam the 23rd of February. Yesterday arrived at Texel the ships of John Eglesfield; from Salo; Joseph Cairo; from Bilbao; and Kornelis the Greek, from Bourdeaux. It had been reported in London that Captain Webb's ship, from Salo to Mataro and wanting to return, had ended up on the beach at Tortosa; that they had hoped to get it going again; but that the storm was increasing, the ship lost, but all the people safe. It is written in letters from Figueyra of the 30th of January that the ship the Molly Captain Pear, with wool fabrics, beer, cheese, etc., from Bristol to Cadiz, Gibraltar and Malaga. 4 days [continued on next page]

 

[1] https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?coll=ddd&resultsidentifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&identifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&sortfield=date&objectsearch=Molly

 

Might this be the vessel named Molly you're looking for?

 

Regards, Jk.

 

From: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io [mailto:main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Groce
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2020 22:58
To: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io; cajalz@...
Subject: Re: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Carole, I’ll answer part of your question. There are no records at Rotterdam. I visited here back in 90’s seekng some possible clues for my Simon and Theobald Gross on the ship Europa, from Rotterdam to Philadelphia, November 1741. The city was heavily damaged during WW2.  I did find some Lloyd of London entries about the ship sightings and there were entries where ships reported sightings of  British ships making the voyage. The Palatine? You can google for that description of territory in present day southeast Germany.  Even a part of Bavaria may have been included in the “Palatine” area.

 

I went so far as to search for every immigrant on the Europa looking for possible clues as to origin. Many of the Palatine’s I identified were from present day state of Rheinland-Pfalz.  You may have some clues by looking at the local church records in York County, PA

 

Best of luck on your search. James Donald Groce, Cookeville, Tennessee

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JACK HACKER
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:35 PM
To: german-genealogy-ENG@groups.io
Subject: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Hi,

 

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

 

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 

 

My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

 

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

 

Carole

 


caroline sax
 

Carole  - I’m ignorant re: most of this discussion apart from the fact that
in your sentence below you say  … ‘on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last
from Deal’.

DEAL is one of the ‘Cinque’ ports in the South of England very close to Dover.
Have you tried looking to see if there is any trace of that part of the journey?
They might have had a listing of the ship’s passengers before it made it’s onward
voyage. 

There are lots of other opinions expressed. But it’s a thought.

Caroline (UK)

On 21 Jul 2020, at 21:34, JACK HACKER <cajalz@...> wrote:

Hi,

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 
 
My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

Carole


John W. Kitz
 

Carole,

 

AFAIK the City Archive of Rotterdam does hold passenger manifests, such as of the Holland America Line (HAL), but I'm not so sure they go back as far as the 18th century. For any records about ships going back that far in time I think you might have a better chance of finding what you're looking for in the Dutch National Archive in The Hague.

 

With respect to the newspaper article I provided a rough translation of and link to below, please note that I found an old map[1] of New Netherlands (in Dutch "Nieuw Nederland"), today a portion of the East coast of the United States of America, on the website of the Dutch National Archive, the content of which may put the translation into a slightly different perspective, in that I assumed the word "Texel" in the newspaper article to refer to the present day Dutch island named "Texel" in the Northern parts of present day the Netherlands, whereas in fact it may at the time have referred to an island off the coast of the present day United States of America, where one today still finds Martha's Vineyard (or (in Dutch) Martha's Wijngaard as shown on the map) and Nantucket (or (in Dutch) Vlieland as shown on the map).

 

[1] http://proxy.handle.net/10648/d47b73bd-3a36-8da1-f32d-932fdf2a310b

 

Needless to note that the time period during which the map was made / published is relevant for the proper interpretation of both the map and the article, as well as the combination of both and other records that you may have found or are still going to find as they relate to the topic of your research.

 

I hope this helps somewhat.

 

Best of luck regards, Jk.

 

From: John W. Kitz [mailto:John.Kitz-gen@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2020 23:23
To: 'main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io'
Subject: RE: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Carole,

 

In a Dutch newspaper dated February 25th, 1732 I found an article[1] that roughly translates to:

 

Amsterdam the 23rd of February. Yesterday arrived at Texel the ships of John Eglesfield; from Salo; Joseph Cairo; from Bilbao; and Kornelis the Greek, from Bourdeaux. It had been reported in London that Captain Webb's ship, from Salo to Mataro and wanting to return, had ended up on the beach at Tortosa; that they had hoped to get it going again; but that the storm was increasing, the ship lost, but all the people safe. It is written in letters from Figueyra of the 30th of January that the ship the Molly Captain Pear, with wool fabrics, beer, cheese, etc., from Bristol to Cadiz, Gibraltar and Malaga. 4 days [continued on next page]

 

[1] https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?coll=ddd&resultsidentifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&identifier=ddd:010725518:mpeg21:a0004&sortfield=date&objectsearch=Molly

 

Might this be the vessel named Molly you're looking for?

 

Regards, Jk.

 

From: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io [mailto:main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Groce
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July, 2020 22:58
To: main@German-genealogy-ENG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Carole, I’ll answer part of your question. There are no records at Rotterdam. I visited here back in 90’s seekng some possible clues for my Simon and Theobald Gross on the ship Europa, from Rotterdam to Philadelphia, November 1741. The city was heavily damaged during WW2.  I did find some Lloyd of London entries about the ship sightings and there were entries where ships reported sightings of  British ships making the voyage. The Palatine? You can google for that description of territory in present day southeast Germany.  Even a part of Bavaria may have been included in the “Palatine” area.

 

I went so far as to search for every immigrant on the Europa looking for possible clues as to origin. Many of the Palatine’s I identified were from present day state of Rheinland-Pfalz.  You may have some clues by looking at the local church records in York County, PA

 

Best of luck on your search. James Donald Groce, Cookeville, Tennessee

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JACK HACKER
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 3:35 PM
To: german-genealogy-ENG@groups.io
Subject: [German-genealogy-ENG] Palintine +Druck

 

Hi,

 

My ancestor Johann George (Gorg) Druck arrived in Philadelphia PA. on October 17, 1741. "Palatines imported on the ship Molly from Rotterdam last from Deal. George's age was listed as 27 years.

 

George is first taxed in Lancaster County PA but lived his life in York County PA. He died 02 Oct 1792 in York. He left a widow Christina. No researcher has found her maiden name or any data about her. All of their known children were born (oldest 1756) in York PA. 

 

My question is where do I search for any Druck families in the Palatine? What land did the Palatine cover in 1741? Are there any ship records in Rotterdam? With "Druck" meaning printer or press my research comes up with some crazy data!

 

Thanks for any suggestion of where to look for data.

 

Carole

 


John W. Kitz
 

Carole, and others,

 

Excerpt from Google Maps:

 

 

Excerpt from this http://proxy.handle.net/10648/d47b73bd-3a36-8da1-f32d-932fdf2a310b map in the Dutch National Archive from I don't know when:

 

 

Also see https://www.newnetherlandinstitute.org/history-and-heritage/digital-exhibitions/a-tour-of-new-netherland/delaware/ and this https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=Molly&facets%5Bperiode%5D%5B%5D=1%7C18e_eeuw%7C1740-1749%7C&page=1&sortfield=date&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002&resultsidentifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002 Dutch newspaper article in the Amsterdamsche Courant dated October 3rd, 1741.

 

The newspaper article amongst others mentions (see the excerpt below) a skirmish of sorts with a Spanish privateer at sea off Kaap Houlopen.

 

IMHO Kaap Houlopen is the same place as Kaap Hinloopen (in the green oval) opposite Cape May (in Dutch Kaap Maij) in the maps above.

 

 

Regards, Jk.


John W. Kitz
 

Carole, and others,

 

The similarities between the maps go even further, see the updated maps below.

 

Excerpt from Google Maps:

 

 

Excerpt from this http://proxy.handle.net/10648/d47b73bd-3a36-8da1-f32d-932fdf2a310b map in the Dutch National Archive from I don't know when:

 

 

Also see https://www.newnetherlandinstitute.org/history-and-heritage/digital-exhibitions/a-tour-of-new-netherland/delaware/ and this https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=Molly&facets%5Bperiode%5D%5B%5D=1%7C18e_eeuw%7C1740-1749%7C&page=1&sortfield=date&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002&resultsidentifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002 Dutch newspaper article in the Amsterdamsche Courant dated October 3rd, 1741.

 

The newspaper article amongst others mentions (see the excerpt below) a skirmish of sorts with a Spanish privateer at sea off Kaap Houlopen.

 

IMHO Kaep Houlopen is the same place as Kaap Hinloopen (in the green oval) opposite Cape May (in Dutch Kaap Maij) in the maps above.

 

 

Regards, Jk.


John W. Kitz
 

Carole, and others,

 

The similarities between the maps go even further; see the updated maps in reverse chronologic order below.

 

Excerpt from Google Maps:

 

 

Excerpt from this http://proxy.handle.net/10648/7a67be72-adae-6319-0d2e-4372f6a54242 map in the National Archives of the Netherlands dated end 1700's - beginning 1800's:

 

 

Excerpt from this http://proxy.handle.net/10648/d47b73bd-3a36-8da1-f32d-932fdf2a310b map in the National Archives of the Netherlands dated 1827 (but I guess the situation considerably depicted predates 1827):

 

 

Also see https://www.newnetherlandinstitute.org/history-and-heritage/digital-exhibitions/a-tour-of-new-netherland/delaware/ and this https://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?query=Molly&facets%5Bperiode%5D%5B%5D=1%7C18e_eeuw%7C1740-1749%7C&page=1&sortfield=date&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002&resultsidentifier=ddd:010713777:mpeg21:a0002 Dutch newspaper article in the Amsterdamsche Courant dated October 3rd, 1741.

 

The newspaper article amongst others mentions (see the excerpt below) a skirmish of sorts between two privateers (one of which Spanish) at sea off Kaep Houlopen.

 

IMHO Kaep Houlopen is the same place as Kaap Hinloopen (in the green oval) opposite Cape May (in Dutch Kaap Maij) in the maps above.

 

 

Regards, Jk.